And why should the public have access to these again?

[plantsman]

You're kidding, right? Or did I miss the fact that our constitution has been rewritten?

[NotSoSilentBob]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some 2nd amendment site. Thats just how it can be interpreted, since he said if was for militia..which it says. But I dont think all guns should be banned by any means, I gotta few. The guns I am talking about have no reason to be in the publics hands. And no one can give me any reasons to why they should. </div></div>

Using your militia reasoning (along with Miller v. US 1939) justifies civilian ownership of automatic weapons.

[R13]

No reason for the public to have them IMO. And none that believe that they should, can give me a reason as to why.

[1inStripes]

Because I want to lay waste to some ammo whenever I feel like it. Their great for killing varmints and multiples of them that like to raid my garden. Is that enough of a reason for you? Theres why. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[imported_GC1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R13</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GC1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Militia purposes. Again you cant tell me they knew that we would have the guns we have today. </div></div>

Correct, Militia. And who is the militia? </div></div>

Under this interpretation, the right to bear arms means that there is a "right" to establish military organizations under government control and that "the people" enrolled in those military organizations have the right to weapons. Hence, no individual private "right" to arms exists. Under this interpretation, the Amendment merely refers to the "right" of government troops to arm themselves. </div></div>

Well, you get your "interpretation" from the Founders themselves and not a website for starters. The right is for the PEOPLE to bear arms and have the ability to form what, at the time, was the citizen militia which was not absolutely under government control but could idependently stand against a tyrannical government to protect the rights guaranteed in the Constitution. The rights are not to the National Guard or any other regular armed forces. Under these rights the citizens were entitled to the same arms that the regular Army was entitled to as far as small arms. The Army didn't get big muskets and the citizens small ones. The only government that is afraid of an armed population of law abiding citizens is a government that is wanting to opress the citizens. It is the duty of armed, law abiding, citizens to protect and uphold liberty much like out forefathers did when they faced a much more powerful, tyrannical government in England.

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal to Virginia Constitution

"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." (Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."? (Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776

"We established however some, although not all, its [self-government] important principles. The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed..."? (Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824

"The thoughtful reader may wonder, why wasn't Jefferson's proposal of "?No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms' adopted by the Virginia legislature? They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.)


"The Constitution shall never be construed...to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." (Samuel Adams, 1780)


"The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" (Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836)

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" (Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836)


"...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)

(The American Colonies were) "all democratic governments, where the power is in the hands of the people and where there is not the least difficulty or jealousy about putting arms into the hands of every man in the country. (European countries should not) be ignorant of the strength and the force of such a form of government and how strenuously and almost wonderfully people living under one have sometimes exerted themselves in defense of their rights and liberties and how fatally it has ended with many a man and many a state who have entered into quarrels, wars and contests with them." George Mason

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. " (Noah Webster, "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution," 1787

Get the picture? An INDIVIDUAL RIGHT of the people, to the people. To Defend life, liberty, and property at all costs.

[CoeburnCane]

What GC1 just posted is how people on here need to handle taking an intelligent position (and not just an argumentative one) as far as any political subject goes on this board. Point by point, went back to the roots. Only thing I'd ask for is a link to those quotes for legitimacy.

Good post.

[imported_GC1]

Linky....

[R13]

And again its a somewhat outdated amendment.

"The right is for the PEOPLE to bear arms and have the ability to form what, at the time, was the citizen militia which was not absolutely under government control but could idependently stand against a tyrannical government to protect the rights guaranteed in the Constitution."

Key word there is "at the time", things were much different at the time and the weaponry was much different at the time. The public does not need access to these assault weapons and the reason "because I can" doesnt mean much when there are lives involved. This is one of those "Some idiots screwed it up for the rest of us" cases. I havent come across any legislation banning all guns everywhere like the NRA makes it out to be. The bans on weapons in public places, assault weapons ban (94) etc are set forth to make places in America safer, not to take the fun out of cleaning your gun sort of thing. In other words the liberals have not set out on a mission to rid every gun owner of their guns or banning a certain one for the hell of it.

[CoeburnCane]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GC1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Linky.... </div></div>

Thank you.

[curveball08]

Look if u want to own a gun then do it and if not then dont. Dont try and sit on your high horse and talk about how people shouldnt own guns, the fact is that the constitution gives the right to bear arms no matter how you want to interpret it or what they meant by it. Besides the anti-gun people have it wrong anyway. If you want to stop people from using guns just stop making the ammunition, without amo a gun becomes just a club lol.